Speculation on Introspection
Posted by Ryan on October 3rd, 2006
This past weekend we ran the longest run of our training season (just shy of 20 miles) before the big marathon.
It beat me up pretty good. I have been sore all over my body from about mile 13 until now. (Yes now, even as you are reading this. Even if you have gone back through the archives and are reading this post 5 years from the day I wrote it, I am still sore.)
Part of the reason I am so sore is because my wife, who is slower than I am and therefore something of a regulator of my speed, had to drop out 100 yards after we started because of a foot injury. My sister-in-law and I ran on, completely unrestrained by my slow-and-steady wife and completely over-exerting ourselves. The gospel lessons there are plentiful. But I have a different topic to address.
While my sister-in-law and I were running and talking, we discussed the early days when I started dating Cristina seriously Her sister and mother hated me - a lot. Our conversation was something like this:
“I didn’t like you because you kept Cristina out really late and that was disrespectful to my mom”
“Liar. Cristina was a college graduate when we started dating seriously and was paying her share of the household bills - she was quite exonerated from obeying any rules. You didn’t like me because before I came around, you, your mom and Cristina enjoyed years of being a close little family that did everything together and I represented the end of that era. I could have been the most phenomenal, rich, handsome, kind, incredible guy ever and you still would have hated me.”
“No I just thought you kept her out way too late.”
Later, as we all sat for lunch and renewed the conversation, Robin slightly conceded that a tiny part of my theory might sorta be a little bit right. To which I pointed out that it was a completely valid reason for hating me and that it was a lot less shallow than some nonsense about late nights.
Her denial got me thinking about introspection and motivations and the subconscious. Why didn’t she ever consider her real reason for hating me? If she did, why didn’t she just say so? If she didn’t consider it, how did the fear of losing her family mentally translate into a manifestation of hatred for me without being absurdly obvious to her consciousness? What is the deal with this whole subconscious thing and how does it fit into our Heavenly Father’s plan for us?
One more example: Some of you may have noticed a couple characters (I use that term not in the old-fashioned derogatory sense, but in the “I can’t really tell if you are behaving this way because it’s the internet and you have a nom de plume or if you really behave as you have displayed” sense.) named “The Narrator” and “Hhhhhh” who have spent some time here and over at Sustain’d and who knows where else engaging in mindless verbal sparring.
The attacks and counter-attacks rarely contribute to the original thread and are quite capable of ending a substantive discussion within a few comments. On the surface they both seem like logical people. So they must know some of the following things:
1.Nobody else cares about their quarrel.
2.Neither of them will ever concede any of the other’s points
3.Nothing productive comes of the arguments (eek. By extension I guess I am labeling my own post unproductive. Dangit!)
Why do these two intelligent people continue the debate then? Hmm.. possible motives:
1.Attention
2.An emotional inability to let an attack go by without countering
3.A belief that by out-arguing their foe, the bloggernacle community will recognize their superior intellect and validate their participation.
4.A belief that others are anxiously watching the exchanges and are fascinated or entertained.
All the possible motives I can think of are illogical and have roots in sub-conscious self-esteem issues. Maybe there’s a reason I haven’t thought of that is valid. I doubt it though.
So what do you think? Why did our Heavenly Father give us a subconscious that can be so illogical. Why is the part of our mind that truly has the power to covertly guide us into destructive behavioral patterns so difficult to access/understand and so influential on our daily actions? I think solving that little mystery is one of the keys to happiness here and in the eternities. .
Well done Ryan; great analysis!
However, I think you may be a bit off when you suggest the following:
Why did our Heavenly Father give us a subconscious that can be so illogical.
That’s like saying: why did God give me hands that can really hurt people?
You’re right about the reality that we don’t really introspect and determine our real motives and thought processes because it’s easy to brush things into our subconscious (or, rather not get them out of there). But I think the reason we do this is not because our subconscious is meant to fill that role; rather I think it is rooted in pride and conflicting desires! [This post is the perfect door-opener for my post of posts, I hate you for posting it now because I don't have the time to write my post-of-posts :)]
No doubt Robin did hate you for breaking up the family, and as a result hurt her desire to have Christina as a life-long daily live-in friend. Yet, it is probably true that Robin also loves Christina so much that she wanted Christina to have happiness in marriage to a lovable hunk like yourself. These were conflicting desires within her and instead of doing the hard thing: let her sister go, she chose to take out her frustration on you. And this frustration, which was congnitive dissonence, played itself out in a facade to protect herself–her image (which is a huge part of this).
For the record, I’m not attacking Robin here. Indeed, I acknowledge I have much bigger issues than that described here; you just happened to bring this example up and I gave my two cents.
Comment # 1 left by Wade on October 3rd, 2006
1.Attention
2.An emotional inability to let an attack go by without countering
3.A belief that by out-arguing their foe, the bloggernacle community will recognize their superior intellect and validate their participation.
4.A belief that others are anxiously watching the exchanges and are fascinated or entertained.
5. For kicks.
Comment # 2 left by the narrator on October 3rd, 2006
That’s like saying: why did God give me hands that can really hurt people?
Yeah I may have conveyed the wrong message there. I wasn’t criticizing the “gift” of our subconscious. I was trying to push for some analysis as to why we have one. Pointing out one of it’s inherent weaknesses was my way of making it a bit more enigmatic and hopefully encouraging some commentary.
But I think the reason we do this is not because our subconscious is meant to fill that role; rather I think it is rooted in pride and conflicting desires!
Interesting. I can see that in both Robin and the Narrator/Hhhhh conflict. So what’s with our subconscious? It’s not just an emotional release valve because it ends up with all sorts of grisly and self-destructive manifestations.
Comment # 3 left by Ryan on October 3rd, 2006
5. For kicks.
See: #1
Comment # 4 left by Ryan on October 3rd, 2006
5. For kicks.
See: #1
Nah. I could care less if others see it. It stems more from a sick/demonic desire to get on hhhhhh’s nerves.
Comment # 5 left by the narrator on October 3rd, 2006
Back on to the topic of the post, I think much of our desires to over-power, not concede, etc are evolutionary traits that gave humans a greater chance at survival 10,000+ years ago.
Comment # 6 left by the narrator on October 3rd, 2006
Sorry. I keep ending my comments before I am finished.
I think the answer is similar to the question of why we enjoy fatty foods so much, especially when it can be so unhealthy for us. The reason we do is because 10,000+ years ago, those with a disposition to really enjoy fatty foods ate more of it and were able to survive through famines, winter, etc. They were also more able to travel long distances. Because they reproduced and died by the time they were 30, the ill-effects of fatty foods (heart trouble, clogged arteries, etc) were never an issue.
Comment # 7 left by the narrator on October 3rd, 2006
“must know some of the following things:”
#1: I know people don’t care.
#2: Not true. I don’t deny the insight of some of Lloyd’s comments, I do question the motives though. I think they were insensitive to the nature of the topics and to the effects they may have on unprepared people. I think they were made with self-centered purposes.
#3: Most likely. One of the reasons I dropped out.
Reasons:
#1: Nah. In fact, I wish this kind of stuff didn’t get any attention. That was my reason to warn about the implications of Lloyd’s posts. I didn’t want people who would certainly not benefit from one-sided negative comments (people with testimony struggles, troubled teenagers, etc) to run into them.
#2: Not on my part. This is not the first time I’ve had exchanges with people (I may add, they don’t happen often, they had not happened for a loing time, and they usually have not been as strong and personal as this last one), and it’s not that I want to say the last word. I usually drop out of arguments when I see them going nowhere (or when I don’t think they’re fun anymore
).
I probably should add that my latest comments in project mayhem (deleted for allegedly being off-topic) had the secret intention of showing Lloyd how nice it is to have a site semi-hijacked. I don’t think it is an exaggeration, I believe it is pretty obvious Lloyd was trying to get his very own Digg army for Sustain’d. At any rate, I think they accomplished the purpose: they got censored.
#3: Nah. Blogging/message boards played an important role in preparing me for the GRE, and also in expanding my views, but I see no value in winning arguments on the internet. I have no e-penis. Also, my English-as-a-Second-Language skills should be pretty evident by now.
#4: Again, that wasn’t the intention. In fact, I don’t like this kind of attention or fame, I prefer to be seen as a moderate person. But I think some pretty bad stuff was going on around: attempts at cyber-bullying Sustain’d, some insults to a UPE guy in Provopulse, diminishing things that may be important to other people, etc. As an example of this latter: mocking the idea of keeping a picture of Christ or of the temple as a help to avoid pornography or masturbation. I know people deeply afflicted by the problem, and these pictorial helps, as cheesy, artificial and “unsincere” as they may seem (according to someone’s standard), play an important role in helping that person feel the spirit and feel he is worthy of calling himself a child of God.
Thus, I think the only way to keep checks and balances on someone’s freedom of speech is confronting him/her with his/her own comments and the consequences they bring.
Again, I think maggie’s opinion in “my own special post” is misleaded. I don’t think a faithful LDS person who is sensitive of others’ feelings can make bitter criticism of the Church, its members and the culture around it based on one-sided approaches. Also, I think the person who purposedly makes comments about Adam-God, God-tyrant, etc. to a crowd that might include people who will be harmed by hearing that stuff at a wrong time is not free of blame. What time is wrong, and what time is right? Personally, I don’t think Lloyd’s time is right.
At any rate, I don’t intend to resume the argument. I can say that nobody has got on my nerves over the Internet, ever. If my sarcasm went unnoticed, I guess I can only attribute it to my humble ESL skills
Comment # 8 left by Hhhhh on October 3rd, 2006
Oh I love the attention. By the way, it’s Loyd with one ‘L’.
Comment # 9 left by the narrator on October 4th, 2006
I can’t believe I am even going to comment on this because to me it seems so pointless. First, your claiming your intelligent (j/k). Quite frankly I think you have one of two things, maybe both: 1)many conflicting personalities or 2) you don’t get enough attention in the way you want it (highlighted by the conversatin between you and yourself | nothing personal, just an observation).
My mind works in very basic terms. We were created in the image of our Father in heaven. His mind is very powerful (obviously). We, being children of Heavenly Father, inherit his all powerful qualities, including the mind. While on earth, our memories of that power is erased, but we are still a creation of his image. Therefore, we have capbilities with our minds that we will not have access to until the eternites. Our subconscious, is an untapped resource, while here on earth, that we all have (I have ventured into less than most) for reasons yet to be revealed. I agree with your statement in that we pay it little attention to the subconscious and that it is an easy place to store things we don’t really want to face (ignorance is bliss). But in that subconscious, Satan can work his dirty work. In the case of Robin– whom I do not know personally, only as a character in the post–she was caught in a conundrum, and instead of admitting a personal reason for her hate, it was easier to pass the blame off onto someone else…in this case Ryan. Idle [minds] are of the devil; this includes the subconscious.
I think the bloggernacle is one way we can entertain that subconscious with productive thoughts. I say this because, since I have been introduced to this thing we call blogging, I do far more thinking than before, and I find my subconscious is fillled with more thought. This leaves less room for Lucifer.
As always, I enjoy your perspective Ryan. I meant nothing personal with the intro, just poking fun.
Always Faithful!
Comment # 10 left by Shane on October 4th, 2006