The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance. –Thomas Jefferson
Posted by Shane on September 12th, 2006
Living in America is a blessing that is taken for granted by millions, daily. I even found myself falling into this trap after a 6 month tour in Iraq, in 2004-05. Upon my recent return to the ’sand box’ I questioned our (America’s) purpose in having a presence here. My Commanding Officer (CO) sent out a speach given by Hiam Harari, to all the squadron officers, regarding the need for our presence in Iraq. It opened my eyes and rejuvenated my sense of purpose in the War on Terror.
This speech is a long read, but, it sums up what is going on in the Middle East and what we can do as Americans to support the troops and do our part in preserving Freedom. I know as an American, living in the promised land of milk and honey, full of the ‘Media’s’ view point, it is very difficult to comprehend the depth of the ‘disease’ that is now plaguing the world. For those of you who do not have time to read the speach, I will prvide a brief summary:
1-The Rich and Poor gap in the Middle East (ME), is drastically greater than the US.
2-Corruption is also the norm in the ME, and if you think there is corruption in America, you are in for a shock.
3 -The Lord provided the US to us for a reason, and that is for the restored gospel, which would not be possible without the extent of human rights that have been given to us in America. The ME knows not of human rights.
4-Accountability for your actions is an important part of the American way and in living the gospel to its fullest. The corrupt, rich Middle Easterners place blame for horrible acts on everyone around themselves for acts they plan, fund and supply.
5 -Everybody in America is given the right to speak their feelings freely. Even illegal immigrants have ‘rights’ to protest in the US (that is another topic for discussion). In the Middle East, ONLY those who are rich and have societal status have opinions that matter. And oh by the way, refer to bullet 2, the rich are those who are corrupt.
6-The four biggest problems NOT recognized by the Western world:
a) Suicide Bombing is a weapon of unequal magnitude, given only lip service to the average American.
b) Words, in the form of lies, used by the rich and educated, are twisted to make the majority, of an inferior society, believe that their (the rich, corrupt) opinions have true merit.
c) MONEY from around the world supports terrorism. From the US to Europe terrorist have their hands in loads of money we can only imagine.
d) Acts that would be unacceptable in the US, Europe or any other civilized society are used to suppress the innocent in the ME AND turn the free Western world AGAINST the purpose of being at war with terror. If you have time to read ONLY one part of this speach, please search (Ctrl + F) for the word Fourth, and read the paragraph that begins with this word. The acts mentioned in this paragraph force decisions that Marines and Soldiers, just out of high school, have to making every day. Terrorists have tactics that make Hitler seem merciful.
7-How do we overcome/win?
a) We bring the fight to the enemy. We fight him on HIS ground. We destroy the inner circle of the terrorist ring.
b) We educate our children, AND all the children of the world.
c) NEVER, NEVER, NEVER surrender to terrorism. If you remember ONE thing from this post DO NOT LOSE HOPE IN YOUR MILITARY, YOUR GOVERNMENT LEADERS OR BELIEF AND FAITH THAT OUR HEAVENLY FATHER HAS A HAND IN ALL THAT IS HAPPENING. He gave us the promised land. He gave us the agency to make choices for ourselves. He gave us the leaders of our church AND our nation, in order to progress the plan of salvation.
The media may present one thing, but remember, they give you news to make a living for themselves.
CO’s comment
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Profanes, (this is our squadron’s call sign)
Very good read.
Minor point: What he terms “dysfunctional,” I would substitute “diseased.” Dysfunctional implies a previous or intended function. It implies science. I think “diseased” more aptly captures the practically absolute societal poisoning and cultural depravation of the region.
Speech by Haim Harari on War on Terror
HAIM HARARI, a theoretical physicist, is the Chair, Davidson Institute of Science Education, and Former President, from 1988 to 2001, of the Weizmann Institute of Science. During his years as President of the Institute, the Institute entered numerous new scientific fields and projects, built 47 new buildings, raised one Billion Dollars in philanthropic money, hired more than half of its current tenured Professors and became one of the highest royalty-earning academic organizations in the world.
Throughout all his adult life, Harari has made major contributions to three different fields: Particle Physics Research on the international scene, Science Education in the Israeli school system and Science Administration and Policy Making.
A View from the Eye of the Storm
Talk delivered by Haim Harari at a meeting of the International Advisory Board of a large multi-national corporation, April, 2004.
As you know, I usually provide the scientific and technological “entertainment” in our meetings, but, on this occasion, our Chairman suggested that I present my own personal view on events in the part of the world from which I come. I have never been and I will never be a Government official and I have no privileged information. My perspective is entirely based on what I see, on what I read and on the fact that my family has lived in this region for almost 200 years. You may regard my views as those of the proverbial taxi driver, which you are supposed to question, when you visit a country.
I could have shared with you some fascinating facts and some personal thoughts about the Israeli-Arab conflict. However, I will touch upon it only in passing. I prefer to devote most of my remarks to the broader picture of the region and its place in world events. I refer to the entire area between Pakistan and Morocco, which is predominantly Arab, predominantly Moslem, but includes many non-Arab and also significant non-Moslem minorities.
Why do I put aside Israel and its own immediate neighborhood? Because Israel and any problems related to it, in spite of what you might read or hear in the world media, is not the central issue, and has never been the central issue in the upheaval in the region. Yes, there is a 100 year-old Israeli-Arab conflict, but it is not where the main show is. The millions who died in the Iran-Iraq war had nothing to do with Israel. The mass murder happening right now in Sudan, where the Arab Moslem regime is massacring its black Christian citizens, has nothing to do with Israel. The frequent reports from Algeria about the murders of hundreds of civilian in one village or another by other Algerians have nothing to do with Israel. Saddam Hussein did not invade Kuwait, endangered Saudi Arabia and butchered his own people because of Israel. Egypt did not use poison gas against Yemen in the 60’s because of Israel. Assad the Father did not kill tens of thousands of his own citizens in one week in El Hamma in Syria because of Israel. The Taliban control of Afghanistan and the civil war there had nothing to do with Israel. The Libyan blowing up of the Pan-Am flight had nothing to do with Israel, and I could go on and on and on.
The root of the trouble is that this entire Moslem region is totally dysfunctional, by any standard of the word, and would have been so even if Israel would have joined the Arab league and an independent Palestine would have existed for 100 years. The 22 member countries of the Arab league, from Mauritania to the Gulf States, have a total population of 300 millions, larger than the US and almost as large as the EU before its expansion. They have a land area larger than either the US or all of Europe. These 22 countries, with all their oil and natural resources, have a combined GDP smaller than that of Netherlands plus Belgium and equal to half of the GDP of California alone. Within this meager GDP, the gaps between rich and poor are beyond belief and too many of the rich made their money not by succeeding in business, but by being corrupt rulers. The social status of women is far below what it was in the Western World 150 years ago. Human rights are below any reasonable standard, in spite of the grotesque fact that Libya was elected Chair of the UN Human Rights commission.
According to a report prepared by a committee of Arab intellectuals and published under the auspices of the U.N., the number of books translated by the entire Arab world is much smaller than what little Greece alone translates. The total number of scientific publications of 300 million Arabs is less than that of 6 million Israelis. Birth rates in the region are very high, increasing the poverty, the social gaps and thecultural decline. And all of this is happening in a region, which only 30 years ago, was believed to be the next wealthy part of the world, and in a Moslem area, which developed, at some point in history, one of the most advanced cultures in the world.
It is fair to say that this creates an unprecedented breeding ground for cruel dictators, terror networks, fanaticism, incitement, suicide murders and general decline. It is also a fact that almost everybody in the region blames this situation on the United States, on Israel, on Western Civilization, on Judaism and Christianity, on anyone and anything, except themselves.
Do I say all of this with the satisfaction of someone discussing the failings of his enemies? On the contrary, I firmly believe that the world would have been a much better place and my own neighborhood would have been much more pleasant and peaceful, if things were different.
I should also say a word about the millions of decent, honest, good people who are either devout Moslems or are not very religious but grew up in Moslem families. They are double victims of an outside world, which now develops Islamophobia and of their own environment, which breaks their heart by being totally dysfunctional. The problem is that the vast silent majority of these Moslems are not part of the terror and of the incitement but they also do not stand up against it. They become accomplices, by omission, and this applies to political leaders, intellectuals, business people and many others. Many of them can certainly tell right from wrong, but are afraid to express their views.
The events of the last few years have amplified four issues, which have always existed, but have never been as rampant as in the present upheaval in the region. These are the four main pillars of the current World Conflict, or perhaps we should already refer to it as “the undeclared World War III”. I have no better name for the present situation. A few more years may pass before everybody acknowledges that it is a World War, but we are already well into it.
The first element is the suicide murder. Suicide murders are not a new invention but they have been made popular, if I may use this __expression, onl lately. Even after September 11, it seems that most of the Western World does not yet understand this weapon. It is a very potent psychological weapon. Its real direct impact is relatively minor. The total number of casualties from hundreds of suicide murders within Israel in the last three years is much smaller than those due to car accidents. September 11 was quantitatively much less lethal than many earthquakes. More people die from AIDS in one day in Africa than all the Russians who died in the hands of Chechnya-based Moslem suicide murderers since that conflict started. Saddam killed every month more people than all those who died from suicide murders since the Coalition occupation of Iraq.
So what is all the fuss about suicide killings? It creates headlines. It is spectacular. It is frightening. It is a very cruel death with bodies dismembered and horrible severe lifelong injuries to many of the wounded. It is always shown on television in great detail. One such murder, with the help of hysterical media coverage, can destroy the tourism industry of a country for quite a while, as it did in Bali and in Turkey.
But the real fear comes from the undisputed fact that no defense and no preventive measures can succeed against a determined suicide murderer. This has not yet penetrated the thinking of the Western World. The U.S. and Europe are constantly improving their defense against the last murder, not the next one. We may arrange for the best airport security in the world. But if you want to murder by suicide, you do not have to board a plane in order to explode yourself and kill many people. Who could stop a suicide murder in the midst of the crowded line waiting to be checked by the airport metal detector? How about the lines to the check-in counters in a busy travel period? Put a metal detector in front of every train station in Spain and the terrorists will get the buses. Protect the buses and they will explode in movie theaters, concert halls, supermarkets, shopping malls, schools and hospitals. Put guards in front of every concert hall and there will always be a line of people to be checked by the guards and this line will be the target, not to speak of killing the guards themselves. You can somewhat reduce your vulnerability by preventive and defensive measures and by strict border controls but not eliminate it and definitely not win the war in a defensive way. And it is a war!
What is behind the suicide murders? Money, power and cold-blooded murderous incitement, nothing else. It has nothing to do with true fanatic religious beliefs. No Moslem preacher has ever blown himself up. No son of an Arab politician or religious leader has ever blown himself. No relative of anyone influential has done it. Wouldn’t you expect some of the religious leaders to do it themselves, or to talk their sons into doing it, if this is truly a supreme act of religious fervor? Aren’t they interested in the benefits of going to Heaven? Instead, they send outcast women, naive children, retarded people and young incited hotheads. They promise them the delights, mostly sexual, of the next world, and pay their families handsomely after the supreme act is performed and enough innocent people are dead.
Suicide murders also have nothing to do with poverty and despair. The poorest region in the world, by far, is Africa. It never happens there. There are numerous desperate people in the world, in different cultures, countries and continents. Desperation does not provide anyone with explosives, reconnaissance and transportation. There was certainly more despair in Saddam’s Iraq then in Paul Bremmer’s Iraq, and no one exploded himself. A suicide murder is simply a horrible, vicious weapon of cruel, inhuman, cynical, well-funded terrorists, with no regard to human life, including the life of their fellow countrymen, but with very high regard to their own affluent well-being and their hunger for power.
The only way to fight this new “popular” weapon is identical to the only way in which you fight organized crime or pirates on the high seas: the offensive way. Like in the case of organized crime, it is crucial that the forces on the offensive be united and it is crucial to reach the top of the crime pyramid. You cannot eliminate organized crime by arresting the little drug dealer in the street corner. You must go after the head of the “Family”.
If part of the public supports it, others tolerate it, many are afraid of it and some try to explain it away by poverty or by a miserable childhood, organized crime will thrive and so will terrorism. The United States understands this now, after September 11. Russia is beginning to understand it. Turkey understands
>> it well. I am very much afraid that most of Europe still does not understand it. Unfortunately, it seems that Europe will understand it only after suicide murders will arrive in Europe in a big way. In my humble opinion, this will definitely happen. The Spanish trains and the Istanbul bombings are only the beginning. The unity of the Civilized World in fighting this horror is absolutely indispensable. Until Europe wakes up, this unity will not be achieved.
The second ingredient is words, more precisely lies. Words can be lethal. They kill people. It is often said that politicians, diplomats and perhaps also lawyers and business people must sometimes lie, as part of their professional life. But the norms of politics and diplomacy are childish, in comparison with the level of incitement and total absolute deliberate fabrications, which have reached new heights in the region we are talking about. An incredible number of people in the Arab world believe that September 11 never happened, or was an American provocation or, even better, a Jewish plot.
You all remember the Iraqi Minister of Information, Mr. Mouhamad Said al-Sahaf and his press conferences when the US forces were already inside Baghdad. Disinformation at time of war is an accepted tactic. But to stand, day after day, and to make such preposterous statements, known to everybody to be lies, without even being ridiculed in your own milieu, can only happen in this region. Mr. Sahaf eventually became a popular icon as a court jester, but this did not stop
>> some allegedly respectable newspapers from giving him equal time. It also does not prevent the Western press from giving credence, every day, even now, to similar liars. After all, if you want to be an anti-Semite, there are subtle ways of doing it. You do not have to claim that the holocaust never happened and that the Jewish temple in Jerusalem never existed. But millions of Moslems are told by their leaders that this is the case. When these same leaders make other statements, the Western media report them as if they could be true.
It is a daily occurrence that the same people, who finance, arm and dispatch suicide murderers, condemn the act in English in front of western TV cameras, talking to a world audience, which even partly believes them. It is a daily routine to hear the same leader making opposite statements in Arabic to his people and in English to the rest of the world. Incitement by Arab TV, accompanied by horror pictures of mutilated bodies, has become a powerful weapon of those who
lie, distort and want to destroy everything. Little children are raised on deep hatred and on admiration of so-called martyrs, and the Western World does not notice it because its own TV sets are mostly tuned to soap operas and game shows. I recommend to you, even though most of you do not understand Arabic, to watch Al Jazeera, from time to time. You will not believe your own eyes.
But words also work in other ways, more subtle. A demonstration in Berlin, carrying banners supporting Saddam’s regime and featuring three-year old babies dressed as suicide murderers, is defined by the press and by political leaders as a “peace demonstration”. You may support or oppose the Iraq war, but to refer to fans of Saddam, Arafat or Bin Laden as peace activists is a bit too much. A woman walks into an Israeli restaurant in mid-day, eats, observes families with old people and children eating their lunch in the adjacent tables and pays the bill. She then blows herself up, killing 20 people, including many children, with heads and arms rolling around in the restaurant. She is called “martyr” by several Arab leaders and “activist” by the European press. Dignitaries condemn the act but visit her bereaved family and the money flows.
There is a new game in town: The actual murderer is called “the military wing”, the one who pays him, equips him and sends him is now called “the political wing” and the head of the operation is called the “spiritual leader”. There are numerous other examples of such Orwellian nomenclature, used every day not only by terror chiefs but also by Western media. These words are much more dangerous than many people realize. They provide an emotional infrastructure for atrocities. It was Joseph Goebels who said that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it. He is now being outperformed by his successors.
The third aspect is money. Huge amounts of money, which could have solved many social problems in this dysfunctional part of the world, are channeled into three concentric spheres supporting death and murder. In the inner circle are the terrorists themselves. The money funds their travel, explosives, hideouts and permanent search for soft vulnerable targets. They are surrounded by a second wider circle of direct supporters, planners, commanders, preachers, all of whom make a living, usually a very comfortable living, by serving as terror infrastructure. Finally, we find the third circle of so-called religious, educational and welfare organizations, which actually do some good, feed the hungry and provide some schooling, but brainwash a new generation with hatred, lies and ignorance. This circle operates mostly through mosques, madrasas and other religious establishments but also through inciting electronic and printed media. It is this circle that makes sure that women remain inferior, that democracy is unthinkable and that exposure to the outside world is minimal. It is also that circle that leads the way in blaming everybody outside the Moslem world, for the miseries of the region.
Figuratively speaking, this outer circle is the guardian, which makes sure that the people look and listen inwards to the inner circle of terror and incitement, rather than to the world outside. Some parts of this same outer circle actually operate as a result of fear from, or blackmail by, the inner circles. The horrifying added factor is the high birth rate. Half of the population of the Arab world is under the age of 20, the most receptive age to incitement, guaranteeing two more generations of blind hatred.
Of the three circles described above, the inner circles are primarily financed by terrorist states like Iran and Syria, until recently also by Iraq and Libya and earlier also by some of the Communist regimes. These states, as well as the Palestinian Authority, are the safe havens of the wholesale murder vendors. The outer circle is largely financed by Saudi Arabia, but also by donations from certain Moslem communities in the United States and Europe and, to a smaller extent, by donations of European Governments to various NGO’s and by certain United Nations organizations, whose goals may be noble, but they are infested and exploited by agents of the outer circle. The Saudi regime, of course, will be the next victim of major terror, when the inner circle will explode into the outer circle. The Saudis are beginning to understand it, but they fight the inner circles, while still financing the infrastructure at the outer circle.?
Some of the leaders of these various circles live very comfortably on their loot. You meet their children in the best private schools in Europe, not in the training camps of suicide murderers. The Jihad “soldiers” join packaged death tours to Iraq and other hotspots, while some of their leaders ski in Switzerland. Mrs. Arafat, who lives in Paris with her daughter, receives tens of thousands Dollars per month from the allegedly bankrupt Palestinian Authority while a typical local ringleader of the Al-Aksa brigade, reporting to Arafat, receives only a cash payment of a couple of hundred dollars, for performing murders at the retail level?
The fourth element of the current world conflict is the total breaking of all laws. The civilized world believes in democracy, the rule of law, including international law, human rights, free speech and free press, among other liberties. There are na?ve old-fashioned habits such as respecting religious sites and symbols, not using ambulances and hospitals for acts of war, avoiding the mutilation of dead bodies and not using children as human shields or human bombs. Never in history, not even in the Nazi period, was there such total disregard of all of the above as we observe now. Every student of political science debates how you prevent an anti-democratic force from winning a democratic election and abolishing democracy. Other aspects of a civilized society must also have limitations. Can a policeman open fire on someone trying to kill him? Can a government listen to phone conversations of terrorists and drug dealers? Does free speech protects you when you shout “fire” in a crowded theater? Should there be death penalty, for deliberate multiple murders? These are the old-fashioned dilemmas. But now we have an entire new set.
Do you raid a mosque, which serves as a terrorist ammunition storage? Do you return fire, if you are attacked from a hospital? Do you storm a church taken over by terrorists who took the priests hostages? Do you search every ambulance after a few suicide murderers use ambulances to reach their targets? Do you strip every woman because one pretended to be pregnant and carried a suicide bomb on her belly? Do you shoot back at someone trying to kill you, standing deliberately behind a group of children? Do you raid terrorist headquarters, hidden in a mental hospital? Do you shoot an arch-murderer who deliberately moves from one location to another, always surrounded by children? All of these happen daily in Iraq and in the Palestinian areas. What do you do? Well, you do not want to face the dilemma. But it cannot be avoided.
Suppose, for the sake of discussion, that someone would openly stay in a well-known address in Teheran, hosted by the Iranian Government and financed by it, executing one atrocity after another in Spain or in France, killing hundreds of innocent people, accepting responsibility for the crimes, promising in public TV interviews to do more of the same, while the Government of Iran issues public condemnations of his acts but continues to host him, invite him to official functions and treat him as a great dignitary. I leave it to you as homework to figure out what Spain or France would have done, in such a situation.
The problem is that the civilized world is still having illusions about the rule of law in a totally lawless environment. It is trying to play ice hockey by sending a ballerina ice-skater into the rink or to knock out a heavyweight boxer by a chess player. In the same way that no country has a law against cannibals eating its prime minister, because such an act is unthinkable, international law does not address killers shooting from hospitals, mosques and ambulances, while being protected by their Government or society. International law does not know how to handle someone who sends children to throw stones, stands behind them and shoots with immunity and cannot be arrested because he is sheltered by a Government. International law does not know how to deal with a leader of murderers who is royally and comfortably hosted by a country, which pretends to condemn his acts or just claims to be too weak to arrest him. The amazing thing is that all of these crooks demand protection under international law and define all those who attack them as war criminals, with some Western media repeating the allegations. The good news is that all of this is temporary, because the evolution of international law has always adapted itself to reality. The punishment for suicide murder should be death or arrest before the murder, not during and not after. After every world war, the rules of international law have changed and the same will happen after the present one. But during the twilight zone, a lot of harm can be done.
The picture I described here is not pretty. What can we do about it? In the short run, only fight and win. In the long run ? only educate the next generation and open it to the world. The inner circles can and must be destroyed by force. The outer circle cannot be eliminated by force. Here we need financial starvation of the organizing elite, more power to women, more education, counter propaganda, boycott whenever feasible and access to Western media, internet and the international scene. Above all, we need a total absolute unity and determination of the civilized world against all three circles of evil.
Allow me, for a moment, to depart from my alleged role as a taxi driver and return to science. When you have a malignant tumor, you may remove the tumor itself surgically. You may also starve it by preventing new blood from reaching it from other parts of the body, thereby preventing new “supplies” from expanding the tumor. If you want to be sure, it is best to do both.
But before you fight and win, by force or otherwise, you have to realize that you are in a war, and this may take Europe a few more years. In order to win, it is necessary to first eliminate the terrorist regimes, so that no Government in the world
will serve as a safe haven for these people. I do not want to comment here on whether the American-led attack on Iraq was justified from the point of view of weapons of mass destruction or any other pre-war argument, but I can look at the post-war map of Western Asia. Now that Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya are out, two and a half terrorist states remain: Iran, Syria and Lebanon, the latter being a Syrian colony. Perhaps Sudan should be added to the list. As a result of the conquest of Afghanistan and Iraq, both Iran and Syria are now totally surrounded by territories unfriendly to them. Iran is encircled by Afghanistan, by the Gulf States, Iraq and the Moslem republics of the former Soviet Union. Syria is surrounded by Turkey, Iraq, Jordan and Israel. This is a significant strategic change and it applies strong pressure on the terrorist countries. It is not surprising that Iran is so active in trying to incite a Shiite uprising in Iraq. I do not know if the American plan was actually to encircle both Iran and Syria, but that is the resulting situation.
In my humble opinion, the number one danger to the world today is Iran and its regime. It definitely has ambitions to rule vast areas and to expand in all directions. It has an ideology, which claims supremacy over Western culture. It is ruthless. It has proven that it can execute elaborate terrorist acts without leaving too many traces, using Iranian Embassies. It is clearly trying to develop Nuclear Weapons. Its so-called moderates and conservatives play their own virtuoso version of the “good-cop versus bad-cop” game. Iran sponsors Syrian terrorism, it is certainly behind much of the action in Iraq, it is fully funding the Hizbullah and, through it, the Palestinian Hamas and Islamic Jihad, it performed acts of terror at least in Europe and in South America and probably also in Uzbekistan and Saudi Arabia and it truly leads a multi-national terror consortium, which includes, as minor players, Syria, Lebanon and certain Shiite elements in Iraq. Nevertheless, most European countries still trade with Iran, try to appease it and refuse to read the clear signals.
In order to win the war it is also necessary to dry the financial resources of the terror conglomerate. It is pointless to try to understand the subtle differences between the Sunni terror of Al Qaida and Hamas and the Shiite terror of Hizbullah, Sadr and other Iranian inspired enterprises. When it serves their business needs, all of them collaborate beautifully.
It is crucial to stop Saudi and other financial support of the outer circle, which is the fertile breeding ground of terror. It is important to monitor all donations from the Western World to Islamic organizations, to monitor the finances of international relief organizations and to react with forceful economic measures to any small sign of financial aid to any of the three circles of terrorism. It is also important to act decisively against the campaign of lies and fabrications and to monitor those Western media who collaborate with it out of naivety, financial interests or ignorance.
Above all, never surrender to terror. No one will ever know whether the recent elections in Spain would have yielded a different result, if not for the train bombings a few days earlier. But it really does not matter. What matters is that the terrorists believe that they caused the result and that they won by driving Spain out of Iraq. The Spanish story will surely end up being extremely costly to other European countries, including France, who is now expelling inciting preachers and forbidding veils and including others who sent troops to Iraq. In the long run, Spain itself will pay even more.
Is the solution a democratic Arab world? If by democracy we mean free elections but also free press, free speech, a functioning judicial system, civil liberties, equality to women, free international travel, exposure to international media and ideas, laws against racial incitement and against defamation, and avoidance of lawless behavior regarding hospitals, places of worship and children, then yes, democracy is the solution. If democracy is just free elections, it is likely that the most fanatic regime will be elected, the one whose incitement and fabrications are the most inflammatory. We have seen it already in Algeria and, to a certain extent, in Turkey. It will happen again, if the ground is not prepared very carefully. On the other hand, a certain transition democracy, as in Jordan, may be a better temporary solution, paving the way for the real thing, perhaps in the same way that an immediate sudden democracy did not work in Russia and would not have worked in China.
I have no doubt that the civilized world will prevail. But the longer it takes us to understand the new landscape of this war, the more costly and painful the victory will be Europe, more than any other region, is the key. Its understandable recoil from wars, following the horrors of World War II, may cost thousands of additional innocent lives, before the tide will turn.
Your comments will be appreciated.
Shane:
Thanks for sharing this speech! Unfortunately, I think those who need to read it most are probably too lazy to even read part of it. Harari makes several important and insightful points!
I very much like that he pointed out to the world that the existence of Israel has NOTHING to do with Muslim extremists and their homicidal tendancies. He is so right about it being an internal problem of corruption and apathy from the silent majority. Ironically, we have a similar problem with those in our country who don’t understand that terrorism is even a threat and thus they are apathetic about it. Indeed, all this discussion about 9/11 being an “inside job” and how our government is only seeking to infringe our liberties is a perfect example of people not understanding that we are at war and the enemy is real and wants to kill us!
This is why I think one of the best things Harari said was the following:
You can somewhat reduce your vulnerability by preventive and defensive measures and by strict border controls but not eliminate it and definitely not win the war in a defensive way. And it is a war!
Everyone who claims the war in Iraq is not “right” or not “necessary” doesn’t understand what is going on in the world (and in fact what is more than likely going on in their very neighborhoods)!
I also like how Harari pointed out the fact that: “an incredible number of people in the Arab world believe that September 11 never happened, or was an American provocation or, even better, a Jewish plot.” There is so much irony in this statement when one compares it to those who believe/claim 9/11 was an inside job! Those in the U.S. who claim this are diverting the blame and culpability away from the evil doers and placing it on their own government! Thus, in a real sense, the terrorists have won them over and are softening and weakening them just like the wolf in Little Red Riding Hood! I say softening and weakening because those who adhere to the conspiracy theories invariably also believe the government is infringing their liberties with the Patriot Act and other provisions designed to fight this war; these people want to tie the hands of law enforcement and intelligence agencies. In this way, they are falling directly into the hands of those fighting them in this war!
And the best line of the whole speech is this: “The problem is that the civilized world is having illusions about the rule of law in a totally lawless environment. It is trying to play ice hockey by sending a ballerina ice-skater into the rink or to knock out a heavyweight boxer by a chess player.”
That’s just an awesome line!
Comment # 1 left by Wade on September 12th, 2006
Shane,
I hope you don’t mind, but I reformatted your post and cleaned up the HTML code. It was breaking the layout of the page because of some funky tags.
I hope to read this tonight, though that all depends on if my girlfriend comes over or not…
Comment # 2 left by Connor Boyack on September 12th, 2006
Connor:
I’m sure Shane won’t mind; I think he was rushed for time and, as he mentioned, his connection is slow too. Thanks for cleaning it up so that the comments will now flow better too.
Comment # 3 left by Wade on September 12th, 2006
Shane,
Thanks for taking the time to put this together. There are some parts with which I strongly agree and others with which I strongly disagree.
He makes an important point about the root of the conflicts in the ME (and by extension, the whole world). I interpreted his point a little differently than Wade. The point: religion has nothing to do with the cause of the violence; the true cause is the gap between ‘haves’ and ‘have-nots.’ Take Saudi Arabia—one of the wealthiest countries in the world, and also one of the highest unemployment rates. It means there are a lot of educated, able-bodied men with no prospects but a lot of pressure to “do something with their lives.”
I disagree, however, that this war was the right answer. Hariri uses the analogy of treating cancer, and points out that there are a lot of ways to go about it. I would like to use his metaphor to illustrate my opposition:
1) There are more serious diseases affecting the “body” (body=world). Pretty much the entire southern hemisphere is in desperate shape.
2) There are better ways than surgery to treat this cancer, such as cutting off blood flow as Hariri mentions. What if you could ‘convert’ some cancer cells back to healthy cells? Rebuilding Afghanistan is one such opportunity.
3) The body is not healthy enough to undergo this treatment. Perform one surgery at a time (ie. Afghanistan).
4) The doctor (doctor=USA) is overwhelmed. Serious surgeries involve a team of physicians and support staff, and no single person has all of the tools or knowledge necessary to perform the task. We had a ‘team’ going into Afghanistan; we broke it up going into Iraq.
Finally, I’d like to respond directly to your summary of his speech.
“DO NOT LOSE HOPE IN YOUR MILITARY, YOUR GOVERNMENT LEADERS…” What should I hope from our military? from our government? I think they made some wrong decisions—does that mean I lost hope in them?
“…OR BELIEF AND FAITH THAT OUR HEAVENLY FATHER HAS A HAND IN ALL THAT IS HAPPENING.” Are you suggesting that God approves of the war in Iraq? the war in Afghanistan? the war on terror in general? I’m reluctant to respond because I’m not quite clear what you meant.
“He gave us the leaders of our church AND our nation” I’m convinced of the former but not the latter. Does your statement extend to all branches of government (eg. senators)? previous administrations (eg. Clinton)?
“The media may present one thing, but remember, they give you news to make a living for themselves.” True, but by definition there is no other way to get information short of becoming an eye-witness. Of course, the military is no different than the press in that respect: both have an agenda behind their reporting. So if that is a reason to disbelieve the media, I do not see it as a reason to trust the military.
Thanks for the discussion.
Comment # 4 left by BrianJ on September 12th, 2006
(So, Wade, I suppose “Everyone who claims the war in Iraq is not “right†or not “necessary†doesn’t understand what is going on in the world (and in fact what is more than likely going on in their very neighborhoods)!” applies to me.) {smile}
Comment # 5 left by BrianJ on September 12th, 2006
Connor,
I am glad to see your priorities are straight is spending time with your girlfriend. Relationships form families, which are the fundamental unit of society. Strong relationships equal a strong society which result in a better world.
Thanks for reformatting the text. I am working with 100Mbps here and sharing this with several other Marines makes it worse. Although, the morale boost for all is invaluable. Besides that I get to participate in such activities as this.
Comment # 6 left by shane on September 13th, 2006
Wow.
We have no idea how good we have it.
We have no idea of what corruption really is.
We may only have a vague idea of what evil is.
Thank you for this perspective.
Comment # 7 left by Eric Nielson on September 13th, 2006
Shane, thank you for your post, perspective, and service. Yours is a welcome voice on this blog of many (sometimes heated) opinions.
We bring the fight to the enemy. We fight him on HIS ground. We destroy the inner circle of the terrorist ring.
I disagree with this. Unless God explicitly commands otherwise, a nation is not justified in pre-emptive war. We are justified in going to war when we are attacked, in defense, to protect our liberties, families, and religion.
DO NOT LOSE HOPE IN YOUR MILITARY, YOUR GOVERNMENT LEADERS OR BELIEF AND FAITH THAT OUR HEAVENLY FATHER HAS A HAND IN ALL THAT IS HAPPENING.
I have faith in our military, when they are supplied with adequate equipment and accurate information. I have no faith in our government leaders. There is far too much corruption, career politicking, and doublethink.
Regarding having a belief and faith that Heavenly Father has a hand in what’s happening, this is what I told a friend a couple weeks ago:
He gave us the promised land. He gave us the agency to make choices for ourselves.
He also gave us the Book of Mormon which expounds in detail upon proper methods of war, justification for such, and secret combinations both within and without the government.
He gave us the leaders of our church AND our nation, in order to progress the plan of salvation.
Sure, he raised up the Founding Fathers, but I seriously doubt any attempt to ascribe a divine calling to Bush, Clinton, or any of our nation’s current top leaders.
The media may present one thing, but remember, they give you news to make a living for themselves.
The same holds true for our government. I am hesitant to believe anything a politician says. The are very few who speak the truth boldly and plainly. Speechwriters make a living out of twisting words and creating half truths so as to please their constituency and make their boss look good.
The problem is that the vast silent majority of these Moslems are not part of the terror and of the incitement but they also do not stand up against it. They become accomplices, by omission, and this applies to political leaders, intellectuals, business people and many others.
Hear, hear. God spews us out of his mouth if we are luke warm. We must stand up for what is right, as Captain Moroni encouraged (and forced) people to do in support of liberty’s cause. Silence and apathy is surrender.
…perhaps we should already refer to it as ?the undeclared World War III?. I have no better name for the present situation. A few more years may pass before everybody acknowledges that it is a World War, but we are already well into it.
Glenn Beck would be pleased to know that this man is also calling our situation WWIII. Whether anybody likes to admit it or not, that’s what it is.
[Suicide bombings are] a very potent psychological weapon.
Exactly. They are also a reactive weapon. I wonder how many suicide bombings there would be if we were not in Iraq…
What is behind the suicide murders? Money, power and cold-blooded murderous incitement, nothing else.
Duh. In a war you should always trace the money trail to find out who is really responsible. I’d be willing to bet that the trail goes back to the Rothschilds.
The only way to fight this new ?popular? weapon is identical to the only way in which you fight organized crime or pirates on the high seas: the offensive way.
Do suicide bombings happen in the USA? Would they happen in the USA if we withdrew from Iraq? Again, this method is a reactive one, and I’m curious to know how prevalent it would be if our forces withdrew.
It’s like sticking your hand in a beehive. Of course you’re going to get stung. If you leave the bee alone, it will leave you alone, and everybody goes on their merry way. But then Joe comes along wanting some honey, sticks his hand in the hive, and then gets upset with the bees for stinging him. He shouldnt’ have stuck his hand in the hive in the first place!
It is a daily occurrence that the same people, who finance, arm and dispatch suicide murderers, condemn the act in English in front of western TV cameras, talking to a world audience, which even partly believes them. It is a daily routine to hear the same leader making opposite statements in Arabic to his people and in English to the rest of the world.
Ah, doublespeak. Though more subtle and guised, I’m confident we have a bit of this in our own nation.
It was Joseph Goebels who said that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it.
Yeah, the quote is “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.†Along the same lines, Hitler said “The broad mass of the nation … will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one.â€
The third aspect is money.
This is a very important aspect. As I said earlier, I believe war is almost financed by men with deep pockets who have interest in profiting thereby. Satan himself said that he would buy up armies and navies to make war. This is nothing new.
I don’t have time to finish reading the (long!) post right now, but these are some of my scatterbrained comments and thoughts (sorry for the length). One paragraph I thought was interesting was when the author asked how battle should be approached when people are firing from hospitals, ambulances, from behind children, etc. It’s a pathetic tactic used by desperate people, and I won’t even pretend to know the answer to such situations… Again, Shane, thank you for your service and patriotism. We may have different ideas on how to best implement that patriotism, but I am glad you fight for what you believe to be true and just. Best of luck, and godspeed.
Comment # 8 left by Connor Boyack on September 13th, 2006
Brian:
Rebuilding Afghanistan or Iraq or any other cancer cell that needs the ‘blood flow’ cut off is expensive and takes a very long time. Americans do not have the patience or charity to accomplish this. 9/11 in did not even last 5 years and terrorism is still a threat. It united Americans only temporarily until we lost interest in it; or until we felt it no longer affects us as individuals.
Now, if we perform one surgery at a time, when we are complete with one country and move to the next, it is very difficult to keep the disease from returning to the first. I watched this happen in Fallujah from 2004 to present and this was on a city scale. Your right, the doctor is overwhelmed. It will take more than the US to accomplish the destruction of terrorists. But someone (America in this case) has to have the courage to take responsibility where no one else will. We cannot leave a blind eye to terrorism.
In regards to your questions:
(1)’What should I hope from our military? from our government? I think they made some wrong decisions—does that mean I lost hope in them?’
Only you will know if you have lost hope in the aforementioned. People make mistakes, the military is run by people, so mistakes will happen. What is important is that the idea, the defeat of terrorism, was acted upon because there was a need and the need still exists, therefore, we must still act. As individuals we battle with sin. We make wrong decisions. We learn from mistakes and move forward to fight. We HOPE the Lord will forgive us for our faults and allow us to continue on the path of salvation. Americans should hope the military will make the right choice, learn from its mistakes and move on. Accept mistakes for what they are and consider what has been done to rebound.
(2)”Are you suggesting that God approves of the war in Iraq?”
I would never say God ‘approves’ a war, but a quote from ‘The Count of Monte Cristo’ tells the tale, “God, he is in everything”. War has been a part of this world since its creation. We read about it in the Old Testament, the New Testament, and History books from around the world during every time period and we read about it in the Book of Mormon. Why would it be different today? War will get much worse before the second coming. I do not know what the Lord has in store for us in the next year or even what is in store for the rest of my life here on earth with regards to war, but I do know that he has a plan and we are part of it. Not just America, but the whole world. As a LDS I must do my part. So the question becomes, what am I doing as an individual to progress within the Gospel and to bring the Gospel to the world? Am I living my part of the covenant? Am I taking care of the Promised Land which was provided for all? Am I involved in voting for government leaders? Am I involved in the community? Am I staying informed and using the democratic system, which is a blessing, to bring the gospel to all? God’s hand IS in everything and I am here to help.
(3)“’He gave us the leaders of our church AND our nation’… I’m convinced of the former but not the latter.”
Christopher Columbus was thought to be crazy, the Constitution was not expected to last, and Joseph Smith was a young boy who restored the true gospel to the earth; all the exception, not the norm. The framers of the Constitution were good men, chosen by God to fulfill a mission, and they did just that. Each and every one of us is here to fulfill a specific spot, at a specific time, to bring to pass the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Now, since everybody on earth chose to come here and follow the plan of salvation, God has put each of here to serve in that capacity, to move the gospel forward. Did I agree with anything Clinton did? It is not important. Do I agree with everything Bush decides? Again, not important. What is important is even THESE men are here to serve a common purpose…to progress the Gospel of Jesus Christ whether they are LDS or not. I may not understand the method right now, but I do know that it is all in the hands of the Lord.
(4)In regards to Media and Military “…both have an agenda behind their reporting. So if that is a reason to disbelieve the media, I do not see it as a reason to trust the military.”
The media is NOT run by a democratic elected body. The military is run by a body of men and women who have been elected by the people for the people. If you don’t like the way the military is being used, vote for a new leader. If you don’t like the type of Media your receiving you might read or use something else, but there is nothing you can do about receiving the view point of someone trying to make a buck. The military is not trying to make a buck. We are the extension of failed policy and policy is written by elected officials.
Thanks for commenting. I hope I interpreted your questions correctly. If not, I’m sure I’ll hear about it…. Semper Fi
Comment # 9 left by Shane on September 13th, 2006
“Ultimately, there is a higher purpose to this war, and that is to “spread democracy†so that the gospel can enter.”
I’ve heard this reasoning countless times before in Gospel Doctrine and Sunday School as to the justifiaction of the war (and I do understand that you are not justifying it, Connor). But, do you really believe that these people are going to convert to the Gospel in the near future. I mean really? I don’t foresee missionary work being performed in the MidEast for a long, long time–if ever. I just don’t see it happening.
Shane,
I pray for you and your family. But you are a pawn in an ugly game waged by men thousands of miles away who are looking to gain from this war. It is about money and oil. That’s it. You are unknowingly making rich men richer and poor men poorer.
After we “conquer” Iraq, who’s next? Iran? North Korea? Venezuela? Where and when does the war end? How many innocent people have to die?
I just don’t understand how people can sit back and continue to support this war, though I admit that I once did, too.
Comment # 10 left by Tim J. on September 13th, 2006
Shane,
See this post:
http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=322
Comment # 11 left by Tim J. on September 13th, 2006
But, do you really believe that these people are going to convert to the Gospel in the near future.
Regardless of whether or not they convert to the gospel, God has said that all nations will hear the gospel. That has to take place, and it is obvious that missionaries cannot enter a hostile country where the church is not allowed. Perhaps in time, converts will come (look at the logrithmic conversion rate in Africa, for example), but the important thing is spreading the message, regardless of success or consequence.
I once supported this war as well. It’s interesting for me to go back and read old blog posts where I discussed it, and view my logic and understanding at the time. As I have grown (well, I hope) in wisdom and understanding, that support and view has changed. We are imperfect humans, entitled to that opportunity. Though I once agreed with the war, the more I learn about it, who is behind it, what the guised purposes most likely are, and all of the side effects, consequences, and Halliburton contract deals, I grow more and more opposed to it.
Comment # 12 left by Connor Boyack on September 13th, 2006
“Regardless of whether or not they convert to the gospel, God has said that all nations will hear the gospel.”
This is a topic for another thread, perhaps I will post the question at 9M, but, where does He say this? And what does hear the Gospel constitute?
Comment # 13 left by Tim J. on September 13th, 2006
There, I posted it.
http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=338
Comment # 14 left by Tim J. on September 13th, 2006
Tim,
We are living in a time of war and rumors of war.
No, I do not believe the Iraqi people will convert any time soon. But, the British was not about to let the pioneers of the new world govern themselves. The South did not every think the North would win. It may not occur in our life time, but it will happen. Will it happen by method of man, on man’s logical progression of the Gospel? I say no. Whatever the method, the Gospel will progress. The end state is the same for us all…Everlasting Life.
Am I a pawn in a game to make someone rich? To an extent, I see that, many in the military see that. There are very few people in the world that work for only themselves; almost everybody makes somebody else rich. But I also believe that I will be judged by the work that I do. If that is bringing the gospel to a lonely Marine in the desert…if it is the first step in opening up this region to missionaries…if it is nothing else than having an LDS presence in the military, I will do my part in serving the Lord.
If invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan is not the answer, what is the answer to keeping terrorism out of America? When 9/11 occurred, America wanted answers and supported action. Now that the war on terror is still in full swing, 5 years later, and America’s instant gratification has not been fulfilled, how do we combat the problem? Is ignorance bliss? We can arm-chair-quarterback problems from behind a busy work schedule and computer in the safety of the greatest nation in the world, but what is a criticism without a recommendation?
Tim, I appreciate your support of the troops, but more so, I appreciate your courage in expressing your opinion. This is what living in a democracy is all about. The Iraqi people are closer to this than ever before.
Semper Fi
Comment # 15 left by Shane on September 13th, 2006
Shane,
Thanks for responding. You have many insightful and interesting thoughts. If I didn’t know any better, I’d have thought you were in the Air Force.
While it could be said that I too am making someone rich (which is absolutely true) I am not putting my life on the line, and I am benefitting from my hard work.
I agree that you can be used as an instrument to reach other people and expose them to the Gospel, and I hope you are doing just that.
I am pessimistic about the prospects of ever having missionaries in the middle east. Are there not peaceful, Muslim countries in the Middle East? Yes, and we do not preach there.
I guess I shouldn’t say it’s impossible, anything is possible, especially concerning the Lord and His Gospel, but I just don’t see it happening.
Comment # 16 left by Tim J. on September 13th, 2006
“If invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan is not the answer, what is the answer to keeping terrorism out of America? ”
I think this implies that 9/11 was inevitable and couldn’t have been prevented. I don’t believe that, nor does the 9/11 Commission. The problem was with the leadership of the nation at the time and the years leading up to it. We had our chances to put down the threat, and we failed, and those responsible have gotten by without so much as a slap on the wrist while American soldiers and innocent civilians die each day.
(I sound like Jack Ryan–”I’ll dare you, SIR!”)
Had 9/11 failed, do you think we’d be in Iraq or Afghanistan?
Comment # 17 left by Tim J. on September 13th, 2006
Tim, I posted on 9moons but don’t see the comment listed. Either it didn’t work, or is being held in moderation. Here is my quick comment:
I think the scriptures are pretty clear that all nations will hear the gospel. That doesn’t mean every person in every nation; I simply believe that the gospel will enter each nation and part of the world before the second coming.
And now I say unto you that the time shall come that the salvation of the Lord shall be declared to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. (Mosiah 15:28)
And moreover, I say unto you, that the time shall come when the knowledge of a Savior shall spread throughout every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. (Mosiah 3:20)
And it shall come to pass that the Lord God shall commence his work among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, to bring about the restoration of his people upon the earth. (2 Ne. 30:8)
That these plates of brass should go forth unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people who were of his seed. (1 Ne. 5:18)
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every enation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, (Rev. 14:6)
Q. What are we to understand by the four angels, spoken of in the 7th chapter and 1st verse of Revelation?
A. We are to understand that they are four angels sent forth from God, to whom is given power over the four parts of the earth, to save life and to destroy; these are they who have the everlasting gospel to commit to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people; having power to shut up the heavens, to seal up unto life, or to cast down to the regions of darkness. (D&C 77:8)
Comment # 18 left by Connor Boyack on September 13th, 2006
I am pessimistic about the prospects of ever having missionaries in the middle east. … I guess I shouldn’t say it’s impossible, anything is possible, especially concerning the Lord and His Gospel, but I just don’t see it happening.
I’m sure those behind the Iron Curtain felt the same way.
Comment # 19 left by Connor Boyack on September 13th, 2006
I disagree. I think those behind the Iron Curtain were waiting and hoping for religion, those in the Middle East have one. I don’t think it’s a fair comparison.
Comment # 20 left by Tim J. on September 13th, 2006
Sure, they have one, but not “the one”. While they may not be aware of the gospel or the truth it has to offer, they still need it. I believe the time will come when missionaries will enter the Middle East. It may be in a long time, or it may only be two of them, but sooner or later, all nations will hear the gospel.
…Or perhaps I’m interpreting the scriptures wrong, and when it says that “all nations, kindreds, tounges, and people” will hear the gospel preached to them, it simply means that in the Spirit World everybody will get the chance, but not necessarily on the Earth. Not sure that I buy that, but it’s another possible interpretation.
Comment # 21 left by Connor Boyack on September 13th, 2006
What I meant was, those behind the Iron Curtain were looking for an aternative, those in the Middle East–not so much.
I think the link is working. It’s on the MA now.
Comment # 22 left by Tim J. on September 13th, 2006
The link was working before - it’s that my comment is being held for moderation, most likely, because I included five or six links. Anywho, that’s why I posted it here as well, where I have control over the moderation.
Comment # 23 left by Connor Boyack on September 13th, 2006
I found it. It got marked as spam. So it’s you who keeps sending us those p0rn links.
Comment # 24 left by Tim J. on September 13th, 2006
So it’s you who keeps sending us those p0rn links.
no that was me.. sorry.
Comment # 25 left by Ryan on September 13th, 2006
Shane,
First: I want to thank you for your tone. I have heard many people serving in the military use the following rhetoric in discussions like these: “I’m the one putting my life on the line so that you can sit at home and criticize in the comfort of your living room. But I am the one who actually knows because I am the one who’s there.” I haven’t detected a single speck of that argument from you, so thanks!
Thanks also for the answers to my questions. All very thoughtful.
In regards to Fallujah, you wrote, “I watched this happen in Fallujah from 2004 to present and this was on a city scale.” It’s interesting that you chose that city as an example of disease returning to a once-clean city. My friend (whom I mentioned on your “welcome post”) worked in Fallujah for a few months in 2004 as a spy. He has a very, very different perspective on what was going on in that city than you do. Long argument short: he argues that the catastrophic resurgence of terrorism in Fallujah was knowingly and needlessly left unchecked.
I am still uncomfortable with the “God’s hand is in everything” idea. Is that limited to the actions of the US, or are other countries also always the instrument of God? That obviously creates some problems (ie. “Libya is the instrument of God,” “Sudan is the instrument of God.”). Maybe it’s just countries in the Americas (the land of the Book of Mormon). How do you define this?
And related to that: what does it really mean? Is everything that the US does part of advancing the Gospel? There are some examples I can accept (development of Internet infrastructure, treaties, etc.), but what about the obviously bad stuff (eg. slaughter of Native Americans)?
This is not to say that the Gospel is not rolling on to “fill the whole earth,” but it may be advancing despite the actions of our nation, not because of them. (And I would argue that the war in Iraq is a hinderence, not a help.)
The one place where I think we didn’t understand each other was about the media and the military. You say, “If you don’t like the way the military is being used, vote for a new leader.” I did, but you see that I cannot change anything with one vote. What I can change is whether I believe what the military tells me. I agree that the military is not trying to make a buck, but it has a huge incentive to justify its actions, cover its mistakes, accentuate its successes, and exaggerate its capabilities. That’s an agenda–not identical to the one the media has, but not unlike it either.
(My approach to all the information I get from BBC news, CNN, the military, the White House, NPR, Fox News, etc: I believe all of it but I don’t believe any of it.)
Comment # 26 left by BrianJ on September 13th, 2006
In your reply to Tim J you ask, “If invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan is not the answer, what is the answer to keeping terrorism out of America?”
One answer is to stop conflating Afghanistan and Iraq. The first was the right course and the second was wrong.
The next part of the answer: make the world a better place for people other than ourselves. That should rarely require war. Japan is a friendly nation because we built them up–not because we tore them down and then built them up. My best friend in 3rd grade was the kid I got in a fight with in the first week of class, but that is not how I made all of my friends. Who could we be building up if we weren’t in Iraq?
In other words, I assume you are a highly skilled, motivated, and talented American. I would rather employ your talents building than destroying.
Lastly, I share your concern with America’s short attention span. It’s deplorable, and I don’t think the answer is to look for quick fixes, as that will just feed the problem. This is the equivalent of parents putting their kids in front of educational television as a remedy to their children not having the necessary attention span to read a book. (Don’t misread; I’m not anti-TV.) If the president saw that as the problem, then he should have confronted America with it. Instead, he went for another quick fix (”shock and awe”, “mission accomplished”), and now he is having to work night and day to keep America behind him in Iraq. Why? Because it wasn’t the quick fix so many Americans thought they were promised.
Comment # 27 left by BrianJ on September 13th, 2006
Brian:
I really enjoy reading your perspective even though I don’t always agree with you. However, I have to correct you on one thing you just said:
Japan is a friendly nation because we built them up–not because we tore them down and then built them up.
You may want to reconsider that statement in light of what we did to the Japanese to end WWII in the Pacific! The names Hiroshima and Nagasaki should ring a bell. We INDEED tore them down before building them up my friend!
Comment # 28 left by Wade on September 13th, 2006
Wade,
You missed my point. Japan is friendly because we built them up. If someone else had built them up post-WWII (Russia, for instance), then Japan would have been friendly to them and not to us. Becoming friends with Japan did not depend on tearing them down first.
My point is that Japan is not the model for nation-befriending—and I have heard many people equate Iraq to Japan. The ideal is to work with a country from the get-go: build together, change because of it. Some good examples: China-US, Canada-US, Britain-US. If circumstances with a country lead to war, then Japan becomes the model, which is: win, then rebuild them so they don’t have a reason to feel angry, frustrated, left-out, etc—all of which lead countries to go to war and individuals to go to terrorism.
Comment # 29 left by BrianJ on September 13th, 2006
(I should explicitly point out that Hitler preyed on exactly those feelings among the Germans in order to rise to power. And in my first comment on this thread, I point out that the same feelings of 20-yr old Suadis are exploited by terrorist recruiters.)
Comment # 30 left by BrianJ on September 13th, 2006
Brian:
Ah, I see; sorry for the misread. So, do you think there was a way to, as you say, “work with” Saddam besides dethroning him and then building after the chips fall?
Also, your analogies to US relations with Canada and Britain are, in my mind, not applicable to terrorist states.
Comment # 31 left by Wade on September 13th, 2006
Wade,
Was there a way to work with Saddam? Definitely not the Saddam you and I know, but go back a few decades (when we were giving him warplanes to fight Iran) and maybe we could find some mistakes on our part. I’m not saying that everyone is good until the US turns them evil, but we have a history of dealing with “not-so-bad guys” today that cause us problems tomorrow (the old “an enemy of an enemy is a friend” mentality). So, go back to the 80’s, when we were working with Saddam, and pressure him to make some reforms in exchange for our aid. (And by “reforms” I do not mean “trade deals with the US”.)
Certainly there are countries we just can’t work with on an acceptable common ground. Iraq was almost definitely that way in the 90’s. Then the question is (which I ask above): How best should we use our resources? War is extremely expensive; how many countries could we be “be-friending” right now if we still had a containment policy toward Iraq? Could we be destroying-building-befriending one country (Iraq) for the same price as building-befriending 10 others?
I was not making Britain, China, or Canada analogous to terrorist states. I was citing them as examples of countries with whom we were not always friendly (Britain, Canada) but are now very friendly; or countries that we see as having serious need for political change (China) and we see that change happening (slowly, steadily) because of our relationship.
Comment # 32 left by BrianJ on September 14th, 2006
Yes, good points. But I do think the US is befriending many states while at the same time attempting to clean up some bad ones.
Comment # 33 left by Wade on September 14th, 2006
Hi Shane,
Great post! I thought you were in the coast gaurd?!? HAHA, Love ya buddy. -
Comment # 34 left by Okie on September 14th, 2006
(And I should also make it clear that the US has not always had great relations with China.)
Wade,
Thanks for the dialogue.
Comment # 35 left by BrianJ on September 14th, 2006