Anti Immigrationists & Rejecting Christ
Posted by Wade on April 30th, 2006
Father Lehi prophesied. He said, “If the day shall come that [the people of this land] will reject the Holy One of Israel, the true Messiah, their Redeemer and their God, behold, the judgments of him that is just shall rest upon them. Yea, he will bring other nations unto them, and he will give unto them (the other nations spoken of) power, and he will take away from them (the people of this nation) the lands of their possessions, and he will cause them to be scattered and smitten.” (2 Nephi 1:10-11)
There seems to be quite a flurry these days about illegal immigration. The debate is quite heated on both sides. Honestly, I have to admit if I had to choose which side I would come down on, it would be for greater enforcement of the borders. It just seems the safest option. Yet, the above passage has struck me as a possible sign that it just might not matter what any of us think.
Indeed, I think there may be certain events in store for this nation that not many of us have contemplated. There is no doubt we as a nation are beginning to become more secular, i.e. reject the Holy One of Israel. Could the illegal immigration debate be the spark that lights the fire giving light to the reality that if we don’t shape up soon, this really won’t be our Country much longer?
WOW!
Great post on this topic, and great scriptures quoted.
I agree with you in my concern for our borders. I am also concerned (as an engineer) about how many manufacturing jobs are going to China and other places as well. It seems we are losing a lot of important things in this country.
Thanks for scaring the crap out of me
Comment # 1 left by Eric on May 1st, 2006
It seems to me that it is most likely that Lehi lived outside the borders of the United States when making this prophecy. How did Lehi’s references to “this land” come to mean only one particular country occupying a minority of the American land mass?
Comment # 2 left by lief on May 1st, 2006
How did Lehi’s references to “this land” come to mean only one particular country occupying a minority of the American land mass?
This is a very excellent challenge to the issues posted! I thought of this challenge as I put together the post for publication and even before that when I was reading Lehi’s words.
However, I think there is a clear answer to the question/challenge you pose: The Book of Mormon was written for our day and is applicable (I think when references are made to “this land”) to all of the Americas. So, one could argue that as other countries continue to reject Christ, they too will be invaded by those whom God sends in unto them.
I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to think that Lehi’s prophesy, while probably applicable to many different lands, indeed is applicable to the United States of America.
Also, I would also be so bold as to argue that Lehi saw our current conditions and knew what would happen (thus, his prophesy). I think he probably saw the Modern Church established in the U.S.A and I think his prophesy is applicable to the “land” where this founding would occur.
Of course, this is my speculation. I was just likening his prophesy to our current conditions.
Comment # 3 left by Wade on May 1st, 2006
I mean not to insult you on your fine post. I thought that it was well considered. However, it’s really hypocritical of you to just state the “benefit” of coming here illegally when there are border patrolmen in danger everyday by illegal immigrants, drug smugglers, and everyday criminals. There are Americans everyday who live near the border who are being threatened with their lives by thugs who do not like for their illegal operations to be monitored or reported upon.
Yeah, God is behind the illegal immigration. It’s because we’re not obeying Him. Uh huh. Well, what about the law? Isn’t it stated in the Articles of Faith that we believe in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law? Laws are being broken, both by desperate Mexicans, and companies willing to exploit cheap labor. Mexico is part of the American Continent, too. It’s a part of the “Promised Land” and it is one of the most corrupt governments on earth. What’s more is that they have a strict immigration policy against their neighbors to the SOUTH. Why is noone willing to speak the truth, that religious groups, like our Church, and the Catholic Church, are supporting illegal immigration because it increases the fold and the collection plates?
There are wicked people in every land. There are governments in Europe that are more secular than ours. Church attendance is becoming sparse. America’s problems while certainly serious, is nothing compared to the problems of the rest of the world.
I am an anti-illegal immigrationist and I don’t reject the Savior by any means. Rather I embrace him and ask him to help me everyday.
You can twist the scriptures all you want. The Savior also said, “render unto God the things that are God’s and render unto Caesar…”
What have you to say about that? When it comes to the governing of this country I think leaders are beholding to think about what is best for this nation and not what is best according to the view point of religious people like yourselves.
Comment # 4 left by Anonymous on May 3rd, 2006
Anonymous misunderstands the positions of both the Catholic and the LDS Churches. To suggest that either “supports” illegal immigration because it enlarges the fold or the take from the collection plate (or contribution envelopes, I presume) is ridiculous. One need only look at the income levels of undocumented entrants to know that money has got nothing to do with any position either church takes.
To suggest that the churches “support” illegal immigration is wrong. Neither church has taken a position on illegal immigration; both have taken the position that helping our brothers and sisters in Christ is our Christian duty, and the immigration status of those people does not change their identity as brothers and sisters, or their need for Christian charity.
Comment # 5 left by Mark B. on May 3rd, 2006
It certainly is a venomous topic isn’t it, and for good reason. As Anonymous and Wade stated, there are severe security risks posed by the flow of people crossing the border without documentation, etc… The system has been entirely overwhelmed, from traffic to emergency rooms and schools to welfare. But are these mostly arguments people use to support their true ideology?
A concept that Wade indirectly touched on in his post is the ideal of “Our Country” and the great sense of national pride that many citizens have.
I think that this is the true source of the ire that the immigration topic raises.
I, myself, am ideologically nationalistic to a fault. Lately during moments of introspection, I wonder if I have become more attached to my country than to my gospel. I think I have been letting the “Us and Them” mentality dominate the “I am a child of God, and so is everyone else” mentality.
My problem then, is how do I reconcile my desire to be altruistic with my desire for things to be done in the proper order… all things (including immigration) in moderation, right?
But as Wade put it, it just might not matter what I think either way.
Comment # 6 left by Ryan on May 3rd, 2006
Thanks everyone for your insightful comments.
Anonymous:
it’s really hypocritical of you to just state the “benefit” of coming here illegally when there are border patrolmen in danger everyday by illegal immigrants, drug smugglers, and everyday criminals.
Hey, hey, hey, slow down and read my post again. You seem to have missed my personal view. I didn’t “just state the ‘benefit’ of coming here illegally…”. Rather I quite clearly gave my stance thusly: Honestly, I have to admit if I had to choose which side I would come down on, it would be for greater enforcement of the borders.
You said: I am an anti-illegal immigrationist and I don’t reject the Savior by any means. Rather I embrace him and ask him to help me everyday.
Well, so am I; and so do I. I just thought I could shed a little light on the issue from Lehi’s perspective. I think there may be a side to the debate no one has really been discussing, i.e. we may be experiencing a wake up call. This is not implausible to me. If it is to you, I’m sorry but it doesn’t change my view.
Thanks for giving your opinion though! I always welcome hearty opposition — it keeps me thinking!
Comment # 7 left by Wade on May 3rd, 2006
… just pondering how the last verse you cited, 2 Ne 1:6, would sound to an African kidnapped from his village and brought to America in the bottom of a slave ship.
Comment # 8 left by manaen on May 4th, 2006
This is the same anonymous…to the one who wrote this post, how do you reconcile this interpretation of the scriptures to the counsel of Church leaders to build up Zion in your own lands?
Comment # 9 left by Anonymous on May 4th, 2006
Manaen:
That’s an interesting question. Something I’ll have to think about some more.
Anonymous:
From what I understand, the instruction to build up zion does not extend to non-members. If it does, it seems a bit confusing: would they get the message? Can the build zion if they don’t know what it is? Is it even possible to build zion if you’re not baptized and not a member of a “stake of zion”? Seems absurd to me.
And again, my citation of the scripture was only an effort to point something interesting out. I just think it is something to think about. I’m not by any means, advocating for illegal immigration.
How would you read those verses? Does the word “none” not apply to some immigrants? And if so, how do you know that?
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