The Market-Place of AN Idea?
Posted by Wade on January 26th, 2006
Two recent occurrences at my school have opened my eyes to an interesting phenomenon taking place in the halls of academia. The phenomenon regards the stranglehold administrators have on the speech, or lack thereof, taking place on campuses throughout the country. The incidences at my school, which have received national attention, can be read about here and here.
Basically, lefitst professors and administrators, who seriously outnumber conservatives on virtually any given campus, have severely repressed speech at universities around the Nation. They do this by adopting speech codes restricting what they call “hate speech”, and then enforcing the codes by expelling any students who violate them.
I find this interesting and quite hypocritical for one main reason: The liberal battle cry is “protect our civil liberties”, yet they are the first to limit speech in their little enclave called the university.
And, apparently they really don’t buy into the seemingly liberal legal doctrine surrounding free speech. Supreme Court jurists for the past several decades have staunchly espoused a doctrine called “the market-place of ideas” (See, Justice Holmes’ dissent here). The standard is simple: They claim (and I actually agree with it for the most part) that speech should almost never be regulated by government because the cure for disagreeable speech (or what we would call any expression of a message) is more speech. Basically, a market-place of all ideas should exist in which people are able to hear all sides of every argument in order to choose what to believe - the result is that only the best ideas survive.
But, to limit the market-place prevents a legitimate opportunity to choose the best ideas. However, this is precisely what leftist administrators and professors at my school, and others, have done! Thus, when it comes down to it, they really don’t believe in the market-place of ideas after all - rather the market-place of AN idea.
Why do you think this is?
“Why do you think this is?”
Excellent method for silencing dissenters to your argument.
Still formulating an opinion….
Comment # 1 left by Ryan on January 30th, 2006
Excellent method for silencing dissenters to your argument.
You like that eh? Honestly, I don’t think there is too much room for disagreement here. The fact that most universities have speech codes and are very politically lopsided in diversity of opinion and teaching kind of makes my argument opinionless. It’s basically something I personally have noticed to be true. It also has been pretty well documented and studied empirically - hence the links I’ve provided.
So, what I would like to discuss in this thread is the reasoning behind the phenomenon.
Comment # 2 left by Wade on January 30th, 2006
You ask an interesting question. I don’t have an answer, but here is what I think about the situation.
First, the reason that I beleive that there are more Liberals in schools across the country, is that liberals are more likely to want a relatively low paying position that has less prestige. And they feel a need to help others. A Conservative with the same education is more likely to want to find a higher paying job etc.
That is the backdrop of this discussion (in my mind). Liberals can get so cought up in trying to make groups of people “equal” that they often forget what they were trying to do in the first place. They end up creating more regulation to make everyone in schools (or anywhere) “safe”. If you catch my drift. The original idea behind it is noble, that they don’t want to alienate anyone, but in the end what they do is way overboard and is misguided.
We see these sorts of actions in schools because there are more Liberals in the education system, for the reasons I gave above.
If we have a Conservative administration, we will see the same thing, only it will more than likely have different over regulated policies. Most likely geared towards other arguements.
So, what I am trying to say is that, since schools are more liberal then we will see lopsided rules. If the organization was more conservative we will see lopsidedness the other way.
One example I can think of is BYU. Most administration is clearly conservative. During the Vietnam war, the school was fine with allowing pro war rallies, but when they wanted to have anti war rallies, they banned all rallies. Conservative slant (they still do it today). Again, free speech issue.
I am of the mind that we neet to try and have organizations such as colleges that have both liberals and conservatives so the educational experience can be more varied and less lopsided.
So, find some conservatives that don’t mind getting less pay and have them come on out to be educators and I think you will find some changes in the colleges.
Comment # 3 left by Ian on January 31st, 2006
If i am understanding Ian’s point correctly, it could be said that the problem of a liberal majority in the world of education is largely the fault of conservatives (sort of the “Evil is allowed to flourish when good men do nothing” syndrome). I don’t think I disagree with that point. What makes things doubly frustrating then, is the fact that getting “an education” (by default “getting liberal training”) has become the gold standard for measuring someone’s ability to perform a task. It’s especially odd if you accept Ian’s argument that most conservatives end up in higher paying corporate positions, which are the positions that eventually determine who gets hired and what qualifications are necessary.
Comment # 4 left by Ryan on February 1st, 2006
Ryan,
I think you got my point correctly.
Comment # 5 left by Ian on February 1st, 2006
…liberals are more likely to want a relatively low paying position that has less prestige. And they feel a need to help others. A Conservative with the same education is more likely to want to find a higher paying job etc.
While I don’t fully disagree with this line of reasoning, I do think it may be at least a little dubious.
First, I don’t buy the argument that liberals actually “want” lower paying jobs. Moreover, even if they did, the argument doesn’t stand here because there actually are conservative professors at universities, they are just at the “lesser” or lower tiered ones. The study I cited actually proves this: “…conservatives and Republicans teach at lower quality schools than do liberals and Democrats. This suggests that complaints of ideologically-based discrimination in academic advancement deserve serious consideration and further study.”
Thus, if it were completely true that liberals prefer a lower paying job at a university in order to “help” students, then the lower tiered, or what the study calls “lower quality” universities would be full of the liberals while the higher ranked (and extremely higher paying) universities would be full of the conservatives. Again, this isn’t the reality.
Second, my favorite professor at the undergraduate university I attneded (a lowly state school) is a straussian conservative. However, he had to hide his philosophy from other faculty members and when he had discussions with students he would never reveal his ideology. He expressed to me that he had to fly under the radar in order to get a tenured position.
Although, this is the case, there are anomolies. For instance, I have heard that a professor will never be hired into the political science department at the University of Chicago unless he is a demonstrated and legitimate straussian conservative.
Therefore, both sides have their biases. I just find it interesting that the so-called liberals are so eager to repress free expression when it doesn’t jive with their dogma.
Comment # 6 left by Wade on February 1st, 2006
So, find some conservatives that don’t mind getting less pay and have them come on out to be educators and I think you will find some changes in the colleges.
Perhaps, but it is my suspicion that conservatives are not welcome at any given university/college (unless the institution is an anomolous case).
Comment # 7 left by Wade on February 1st, 2006
First, I don’t buy the argument that liberals actually “want” lower paying jobs.
That’s not what I meant. I meant that liberals, if they feel like they are helping people, will take lower paying jobs. Its kind of an ideology thing.
Thus, if it were completely true that liberals prefer a lower paying job at a university in order to “help” students, then the lower tiered, or what the study calls “lower quality” universities would be full of the liberals while the higher ranked (and extremely higher paying) universities would be full of the conservatives. Again, this isn’t the reality.
This may be because the Liberals have been in charge for so long that the conservatives that try to get in get shut down.
I am unfortunately not all that familiar with the history of universities and colleges in this country, but I would guess that there must be some kind of history that will show why most colleges are liberally dominated.
I think that the saying “power corrupts. Absolute power currupts absolutely” fits here. If any political organization is left unchecked (ie liberals and schools) they will rule unjustly. That is why this country has checks and balances. Universities don’t necissarily have those checks and balances.
Of course my opinion on the matter is based solely on my observations.
Comment # 8 left by Ian on February 1st, 2006
As for liberal professors having the utopian desire to help students understand the world, check out this recent article in the Washington Post!
Only 31 percent of college graduates can extrapolate from complex books? Wow, maybe it’s because professors spend too much time indoctrinating students with socialist propoganda? But, perhaps not - maybe college students are just more stupid than they used to be?
Comment # 9 left by Wade on February 1st, 2006
This may be because the Liberals have been in charge for so long that the conservatives that try to get in get shut down.
Yes, this is exactly what I think, and the studies seem to back it up.
Also, your point about power corrupting people is right on the mark! I think liberal administrators and professors who are so entrenched in academia kind of lose touch with reality a lot of the time.
Comment # 10 left by Wade on February 1st, 2006
Only 31 percent of college graduates can extrapolate from complex books?
I lump that one in with the same problem we are having in our schools. Schools/families/society focus more on getting a degree rather than actually learning something.
Degrees are overated and are so common practice that they are becoming worthless anyway. That silly piece of paper is what people want that they are sometimes willing to get it by all means. The internet is a wonderful tool to research, but also to plagerize.
I am going to school online. We have team assignments that we need to do and one student, for his portion would copy and paste from websites. The rest of the team was not very happy about that.
I think liberal administrators and professors who are so entrenched in academia kind of lose touch with reality a lot of the time.
Right. I think it would be the same way if all the administrators were all conservative, they would focus on different aspects.
Comment # 11 left by Ian on February 1st, 2006
Schools/families/society focus more on getting a degree rather than actually learning something.
Ah, the degree as status symbol…I’m marking this down as a future post of mine! I am of the view that higher learning has become virtually useless for most people - It’s primarily a money-making machine for academics.
Comment # 12 left by Wade on February 1st, 2006
I agree with you 100%.
I am getting a degree right now (BSIT), but I don’t think it has taught me that much. I have learned a lot and I think I have grown, but real life experience has taught me immensely more.
Money making racket indeed.
Comment # 13 left by Ian on February 1st, 2006
…real life experience has taught me immensely more.
Indeed! I think it’s important to learn theory, but theory without practice is totally useless. Because academia is so focused on theory unrelated to reality, it is really hard for students to learn.
Comment # 14 left by Wade on February 2nd, 2006
Wow! Well a couple things. For those of us who are naughty little mormons There was just an episode of Penn & Tellers BS that talked about this very thing. I am a firm believer that degrees exist to give those that have them something to pin a star on. Most of the things you have to do in life can be taught to you through training and I do not believe that a degree is really going to teach you more than life experience will. Now that being said lets get in to the liberal professor’s and that lovely “Speech Code”. I think everyone is entirely too sensitive now days. The liberals are there to protect those of us that are too weak to protect ourselves so you wind up with them basically making certain groups off-limits. IE: if you speak ill of Gays it is gaybashing. I am honestly tired of everyone thinking that they have the right to not be offended. If I am saying something offensive Walk away, choose not to listen, or plug your ears if you can’t control your hearing but don’t call me a bigot and tell me I can’t speak my mind.
Comment # 15 left by My Dominion on February 2nd, 2006
…don’t call me a bigot and tell me I can’t speak my mind.
What’s interesting to me is that those who call people bigots are typically bigotted.
The most recent occurrence at my school (the administrator who made a “scene” at an anti-gay marriage event) proves this point. The administrator made a condescending comment about christianity when she said “I’m not a member of your ‘church’, so you don’t have any authority over me”.
Comment # 16 left by Wade on February 3rd, 2006
I love that not just … “I’m not a member of your ‘church’, so you don’t have any authority over me”.
but don’t push your religion on me. But I don’t have the right to say don’t push your anti-religion on me. That would make me a horrible person.
Comment # 17 left by My Dominion on February 6th, 2006
But I don’t have the right to say don’t push your anti-religion on me.
This is a sophisticated insight - you pretty much summed up my thoughts on so-called “free speech”! Isn’t it funny how they don’t apply their own mantra!
Comment # 18 left by Wade on February 6th, 2006
Penn and Teller have a show with a vulgar title, I’ll call it “BS”.
Don’t click on the link if you are sensitive to profane language.
Anyway, they did a whole episode about the absurdity of a college degree and the money-machines that universities are.
I’d like to claim that the reason I haven’t gotten my degree yet is because I am philosophically opposed to supporting this sham. Really it’s just been my own lack of effort to sign up for classes. The show does make for a nice excuse for someone like me though.
Comment # 19 left by Ryan on February 7th, 2006
Hmm Ryan I am glad you can read… For those of us who are naughty little mormons There was just an episode of Penn & Tellers BS that talked about this very thing.
Comment # 20 left by My Dominion on February 7th, 2006
Hmm Ryan I am glad you can read
Yeah actually the problem is that I had forgotten what you said since it was a week ago and I had actually given up on this post. But it is still clinging on for dear life and has taken some interesting turns.
Comment # 21 left by Ryan on February 8th, 2006